| Author | Post |
|---|
empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1331 |
|
Posted: Mon Apr 28th, 2008 03:16 pm |
|
jeffy ole boy wrote: empty wrote: weasle wrote: well personally i dont even see the need for the valve , from my understanding if you set the idle at the right rpm on a tc the pressure pretty much takes care of it,s self. but if you think about it the reliefe valve would provide more pressure at any speed idle or flat out due to opening at a higher pressure than a stock spring. I understand how it works, it just sounds odd that oil is even escaping out of the relief valve at an idle. Now when I start my scoot up the oil pressure at idle goes up to around 55 psi running 20w50 Amsoil. After the motor warms it drops back to about 32 psi idleing. After 10 to 20 miles of cruising, then stopping, maintains 20 psi ideling. Before it'd go down to 0. Of course part of that was the weak oil sending unit I just replaced.
I opened up the manual this weekend to get some reading in, I chased down the oil flow and see where you are beefing up the back pressure. It appears that by doing this, you are dumping a bunch more oil into the top end. This all makes me wonder if this is filling the rocker boxes. ?? I guess all ya gotta do is keep an eye out for oil leaks on top. The pin that holds that kit in is right at the green X, right?
Attachment: camplate.jpg (Downloaded 13 times)
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 11:05 pm |
|
weasle wrote: im runnin a k&n filter now , got it from the indy at a good price when he sold all his stock for he closed . dont know what they cost regular though , we,ll see next time we change the oil , may have to go back to H D. They are very near the same price Weas... Only a $1.00 difference between the cost of the HD filter, around here anyway.
|
weasle
Supporter
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 07:36 pm |
|
| im runnin a k&n filter now , got it from the indy at a good price when he sold all his stock for he closed . dont know what they cost regular though , we,ll see next time we change the oil , may have to go back to H D.
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Mon Apr 14th, 2008 06:55 pm |
|
I personly like K&N oil filters they have a convenient little 17 mm nut in the middle of the filter for quick removal. Also hold up real well to long oil intervals running syn. oil. High filtration micron quality too. I got that last line off of Star Trek from Scotty 
|
Dave
Supporter
|
Posted: Sat Apr 12th, 2008 10:33 am |
|
Yeah, like I said, I ain't sure on the filters for HD. I do know that you "should" use the correct filter (between the Evo and the TC)
But, there are folks out there runnin' auto filters on Shovels. There is some interchangeability. I have a cross-reference guide somewhere on which filters can be used in place of the OEM HD unit...
As for the oil pressure bypass in the pump? I had a Ford pick-up with a 390 CID engine that the oil pump pressure relief valve malfunctioned on. Ever see an oil filter expand and explode within a minute or two of starting the engine? Yeah, wild stuff...
Had a bunch oil pump related problems with that engine. Ended up costin' me a set of rod and main bearings, timing gears, oil pump, and a few other odds 'n ends. Unfortunately, it was over the course of about a year. Not all at the same time. Part of it was under warranty, part of it wasn't...
Anyway, that's why I'm real cautious when it comes to oil pumps, oil pressure and all that.
|
marc
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 07:53 pm |
|
weasle wrote: dave , dont think the HD filters have anything in them , never cracked one open so im going out on a limb here  . the micron rating , i think determines how they flow. if i recall they dont recomend using a twinky filter on a evo cause it filters more particales than a evo filter and is their fore to restrictive for that engine. Weasle, ya hit the nail on the head...
|
weasle
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 06:54 pm |
|
| dave , dont think the HD filters have anything in them , never cracked one open so im going out on a limb here . the micron rating , i think determines how they flow. if i recall they dont recomend using a twinky filter on a evo cause it filters more particales than a evo filter and is their fore to restrictive for that engine. empty , dont know why a reliefe valve would open at idle either ,unless the hot oil generates more pressure in the system than cold oil ?? but that don,t sound right either LOL. shit meby its one of lifes great mysteries ?? Last edited on Fri Apr 11th, 2008 06:59 pm by weasle |
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 05:58 pm |
|
Dave wrote: Something to remember, the relief valve is there in part, to regulate oil pressure. There's more to the story than just the spring Jeff swapped here...
Not sure about the filters for HD (Evo or TC) But, most oil filters (for other applications) have a pressure relief/bypass valve in them that supplements the by-pass valve in the oil pump on them also. Yeah the K&N oil filters are very free flowing design-- so actually I been told oil pressure is lower when using one of these type. I think the k&n has the pressure release/valve built in as well..
|
Dave
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 03:18 pm |
|
Something to remember, the relief valve is there in part, to regulate oil pressure. There's more to the story than just the spring Jeff swapped here...
Not sure about the filters for HD (Evo or TC) But, most oil filters (for other applications) have a pressure relief/bypass valve in them that supplements the by-pass valve in the oil pump on them also.
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 01:56 pm |
|
empty wrote: weasle wrote: well personally i dont even see the need for the valve , from my understanding if you set the idle at the right rpm on a tc the pressure pretty much takes care of it,s self. but if you think about it the reliefe valve would provide more pressure at any speed idle or flat out due to opening at a higher pressure than a stock spring. I understand how it works, it just sounds odd that oil is even escaping out of the relief valve at an idle. Now when I start my scoot up the oil pressure at idle goes up to around 55 psi running 20w50 Amsoil. After the motor warms it drops back to about 32 psi idleing. After 10 to 20 miles of cruising, then stopping, maintains 20 psi ideling. Before it'd go down to 0. Of course part of that was the weak oil sending unit I just replaced.
|
empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1331 |
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 01:48 pm |
|
weasle wrote: well personally i dont even see the need for the valve , from my understanding if you set the idle at the right rpm on a tc the pressure pretty much takes care of it,s self. but if you think about it the reliefe valve would provide more pressure at any speed idle or flat out due to opening at a higher pressure than a stock spring. I understand how it works, it just sounds odd that oil is even escaping out of the relief valve at an idle.
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:54 pm |
|
weasle wrote: well personally i dont even see the need for the valve , from my understanding if you set the idle at the right rpm on a tc the pressure pretty much takes care of it,s self. but if you think about it the reliefe valve would provide more pressure at any speed idle or flat out due to opening at a higher pressure than a stock spring.
That's it! Thats why the custom Spring is better!~
|
weasle
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:50 pm |
|
| well personally i dont even see the need for the valve , from my understanding if you set the idle at the right rpm on a tc the pressure pretty much takes care of it,s self. but if you think about it the reliefe valve would provide more pressure at any speed idle or flat out due to opening at a higher pressure than a stock spring.
|
empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1331 |
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:28 pm |
|
weasle wrote: empty wrote: jeffy ole boy wrote: jeffy ole boy wrote: Dave wrote: I may have asked wrong. But, what I mean is where does it fall in the system.
The oil pressure sending unit on the Cone-Style Shovel and Evo is on the oil pump. I believe (and I very well could be wrong) it "measures" the pressure coming out of the pump, before it goes to the rest of engine.
Does the Twinkie measure it in the same place in the flow of the oil? The TC oil sending unit is right there next to the pump too.. I know the oil goes to the filter first, but I'm not sure where its really measured at? Seems like it would be measured coming out of the oil sending unit. The wires go right up to the elec guage. After giving that a little more thought Dave, it must be measured at the oil sender because after putting the new one on the oil pressure goes alot higher now. After looking at the manual, I see the sending unit is just up the tube on the output side of the pump. An interesting thing here, is the bypass spring they are swapping out is actually a pressure relief valve. There is just something strange to me that you would need to beef up a relief valve to get more oil pressure at an idle. empty if its a relief valve it must send the oil some where (back to pump or oil bag) at a certain pressure , by increasing the pressure on the valve you force more oil through the lines ,because it takes more pressure to open it. hope this makes sense .at least that the way a pressure valve works. You got it, it's a relief valve that dumps back into the sump. The real point I was making is that they are claiming more oil pressure at an idle. I understand needing a relief valve once the oil is pumping hard, but at an idle?
|
weasle
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 12:20 pm |
|
empty wrote: jeffy ole boy wrote: jeffy ole boy wrote: Dave wrote: I may have asked wrong. But, what I mean is where does it fall in the system.
The oil pressure sending unit on the Cone-Style Shovel and Evo is on the oil pump. I believe (and I very well could be wrong) it "measures" the pressure coming out of the pump, before it goes to the rest of engine.
Does the Twinkie measure it in the same place in the flow of the oil? The TC oil sending unit is right there next to the pump too.. I know the oil goes to the filter first, but I'm not sure where its really measured at? Seems like it would be measured coming out of the oil sending unit. The wires go right up to the elec guage. After giving that a little more thought Dave, it must be measured at the oil sender because after putting the new one on the oil pressure goes alot higher now. After looking at the manual, I see the sending unit is just up the tube on the output side of the pump. An interesting thing here, is the bypass spring they are swapping out is actually a pressure relief valve. There is just something strange to me that you would need to beef up a relief valve to get more oil pressure at an idle. empty if its a relief valve it must send the oil some where (back to pump or oil bag) at a certain pressure , by increasing the pressure on the valve you force more oil through the lines ,because it takes more pressure to open it. hope this makes sense .at least that the way a pressure valve works.
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 11:52 am |
|
Dave wrote: Hey Jeff, that's why they tell ya to get rid of the gage if you're having low-oil pressure problems. LOL...
At least with an Evo (I don't know about the Twinkie) as long as the light goes out, you've got plenty of oil pressure. If I remember right, the Evo will shut the light off with about 2-1/2 PSI... Oh well, didn't cost alot and I got peace of mind now..  
|
Dave
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 10:18 am |
|
Hey Jeff, that's why they tell ya to get rid of the gage if you're having low-oil pressure problems. LOL...
At least with an Evo (I don't know about the Twinkie) as long as the light goes out, you've got plenty of oil pressure. If I remember right, the Evo will shut the light off with about 2-1/2 PSI...
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Fri Apr 11th, 2008 01:38 am |
|
jeffy ole boy wrote: Got this off another board:
With oil PSI being on the lower side I would install a stiffer bypass spring into the cam plate. Spring is 13.50 and install is easy with removing the cam cover only. I install them in all of the cam swaps. Oil weight ,temps all play a part as well as the accuracy of the guage you bought.
I am having my dealer install a Baisley bypass spring before I take delivery.
It's an easy and inexpensive way to insure proper oil pressure
I don't really understand exactly how or why it works... All I know is I have much better oil pressure thoughtout the power band with no negative side effects...... AND REALLY TO TELL YA THE TRUTH, IF MY BIKE DIDN'T HAVE AN OIL PRESSURE GUAGE-- IT WOULDN'T OF EVEN BEEN A CONCERN TO BEGIN WITH. Out site outa mind... LOL! It just bugged me stareing at 0 oil pressure when sitting still..
|
empty
Supporter
| Joined: | Tue Jun 28th, 2005 |
| Location: | Plano, Texas USA |
| Posts: | 1331 |
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 09:38 pm |
|
jeffy ole boy wrote: jeffy ole boy wrote: Dave wrote: I may have asked wrong. But, what I mean is where does it fall in the system.
The oil pressure sending unit on the Cone-Style Shovel and Evo is on the oil pump. I believe (and I very well could be wrong) it "measures" the pressure coming out of the pump, before it goes to the rest of engine.
Does the Twinkie measure it in the same place in the flow of the oil? The TC oil sending unit is right there next to the pump too.. I know the oil goes to the filter first, but I'm not sure where its really measured at? Seems like it would be measured coming out of the oil sending unit. The wires go right up to the elec guage. After giving that a little more thought Dave, it must be measured at the oil sender because after putting the new one on the oil pressure goes alot higher now. After looking at the manual, I see the sending unit is just up the tube on the output side of the pump. An interesting thing here, is the bypass spring they are swapping out is actually a pressure relief valve. There is just something strange to me that you would need to beef up a relief valve to get more oil pressure at an idle.
|
jeffy ole boy
Supporter
|
Posted: Thu Apr 10th, 2008 06:34 pm |
|
jeffy ole boy wrote: Dave wrote: I may have asked wrong. But, what I mean is where does it fall in the system.
The oil pressure sending unit on the Cone-Style Shovel and Evo is on the oil pump. I believe (and I very well could be wrong) it "measures" the pressure coming out of the pump, before it goes to the rest of engine.
Does the Twinkie measure it in the same place in the flow of the oil? The TC oil sending unit is right there next to the pump too.. I know the oil goes to the filter first, but I'm not sure where its really measured at? Seems like it would be measured coming out of the oil sending unit. The wires go right up to the elec guage. After giving that a little more thought Dave, it must be measured at the oil sender because after putting the new one on the oil pressure goes alot higher now.
|
Current time is 10:55 am | Page: 1 2 3   |
|
